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#chatmail

8 posts6 participants0 posts today

In 2014 @matthew_d_green wrote "What's the matter with PGP?" blog.cryptographyengineering.c

We'd like to humbly report completion of its main suggestions. Better late than never! :)

- Key management is automatic through #securejoin and #autocrypt protos

- #chatmail relays form an end-to-end encrypted email enclave interoperable with any e-mail address using proper end-to-end encryption.

- RFC 9580 "cryptorefresh" is rolled out in current releases and will be activated soon.

One to go? ;)

I might fire up Android Studio and take a swing at building the most basic #chatmail app possible (sign up, add contacts, send and receive messages while the app is open, remember all of those things). I'm claiming the name ThetaChat. I will let you know whether I succeed before sleep.

Replied to Blake Leonard

@blake

1) Many people want end to end encryption by default and only. Signal has dropped SMS chats three years ago. Mixing cleartext and e2ee is problematic from a usable security pov

2) Several #chatmail operators in repressive situations/environments want to be sure their servers do not contain data that can hurt people. Strictly requiring end to end encryption helps.

3) We use IETF standardized protocols for interoperability and discuss with other MUA devs and help where we can.

#openpgp traditions and #signal both bind a cleartext identifier, phone number or email address, to a cryptographic key. It opens up attack vectors as the servers/orgs controlling this binding can interfere.

#deltachat avoids such cleartext identity bindings by creating random #chatmail addresses, as transport only. The cryptographic key becomes the identifier and we want it hidden from the transport layer. Only people being in end-to-end encrypted chat need to identify each other, after all.

Replied in thread

@AAMfP @goose @dammn yes, our whole project is about proving in reality (meaning: working code) that email protocols can be streamlined for instant messaging. #chatmail relays provide low latency always end to end encrypted interoperable messaging. The family of #deltachat apps work with the permission free chatmail relay server network but also with run-of-the-mill email servers. Just make sure to use a dedicated chat address and don't mix classic and chat email on the same address.

@delta @feld @adbenitez
I've been trying #deltachat with #chatmail and normal #imap server the last few days (since my last messages). One thing I miss is a device management feature. For example, in case a device gets lost, I would like to be able to remove access. Afaik this is still not supported, correct? In that case, what would be the best way to discuss this as a feature proposal?

I've been working on a document

Replied to UpCloud

@UpCloud this is a nice offer! Please note "Delta Chat" is a cross-platform instant messsenger app offering that works with e-mail servers worldwide. #chatmail relay servers are minimal specialized e-mail servers that only relay E2EE-encrypted e-mail. There is a growing community of #chatmail relay operators. If you can provide some free credits for those folks, in exchange for some exposure and publicity for supporting what we call people-sovereign infrastructure, you'd be welcome :)

The tech oligarchs, embodying and collaborating with authoritarians, are the horror artefact of the immense power that lies in configuring and operating our digital infrastructure we live and love on. Cryptography may mitigate toxic infrastructure but eventually we need to find and arrange more convivial ways for going about our lifes. #deltachat and #chatmail are small contributions to people-sovereign convivial infrastructure. DM us if you need support setting up a new chatmail relay :)

new security milestone reached: #chatmail relay servers are hardened to only transfer end-to-end encrypted e-mail with metadata minimization. No cleartext message can enter or leave the secure chatmail network anymore.

We now talk about "chatmail relays" rather than servers as they only ephemerally store messages until delivery. Dirt cheap to run.

We opened up our #rust "chatmail core" infrastructure library and set up an overview of the community driven ecosystem ...

chatmail.at

Replied in thread

@gael

Long time ago you considered#DeltaChat @delta as default chat tool. Somehow, you didn't follow this path. There were issues indeed.
I would like to encourage you to reconsider this. The advances of #chatmail mean a low technical demand for operators. Users can onboard by different means like instantly. It is very easy actually. They have broadcast lists for communities. I think this is move towards the philosophy and ideals of you.

Replied in thread

@dreieck yeah, that's always with "new" messengers.

I assume you're German, you could listen to that
rdl.de/sites/default/files/aud
He explains why you shouldn't see it as an email messenger. I don't mind to see it that way. I think its great that everyone can use just their own email server if they want it to. But also using just #chatmail is great.
Its super simple to use, doesn't matter its desktop or phone.
#deltachat is great, simple and you're not just tied to one server like signal and co.

Tinc configurat el meu servidor #chatmail per #DeltaChat amb 400mb d'espai però l'aplicació esborra tots els missatges antics a la setmana.
D'aquesta manera no em preocupo gens en gestionar l'espai al disc dur del servidor o el del mòbil.